Freedom 40 Cat Ketch Junk Rig Conversion

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  • 08 Feb 2018 11:02
    Reply # 5727392 on 1424184

    The YHP is going to pull the sail forward, so that will be OK. Having extra long masts means that the halyard is not pulling the sail forward, but that's really only the same case as when deeply reefed. The YHP has to do the job then, so it's no different from the situation you have under full sail. The only down side is that when you are hoisting, and have not yet taken in the YHP, the sail has more freedom to swing back and fore in a seaway. I wouldn't change the halyard bridle just yet.

    "... boy does it go down like a freight train - that may be a reason to switch to a 2x1 halyard."

    Yes!!!

    Last modified: 08 Feb 2018 11:03 | David
  • 08 Feb 2018 06:56
    Reply # 5727248 on 1424184

    Looking good.  I've found standing lines to the boom can sort out the balance issue. With a forward-raked mast, I had the other problem - the sail way too far forward, but a bowline around the mast and an attachment point at the forward end of the boom allowed me to swing it into place.  After that it was a case of fiddling with bits of string to get rid of (most of) the creases.

  • 08 Feb 2018 02:29
    Reply # 5727083 on 1424184
    First days of hoisting the sail...  

    We've been busy since completing the sewing of the sail so ithas not been until this week that I actually got it on the boat and hoisted.  LOTS to learn for sure.   

    Some pictures are posted in my album.   Full host with no BP, YP, YHP, nor LHP.


    The whole package does go up with our 1x1 halyard and winch OK, and boy does it go down like a freight train - that may be a reason to switch to a 2x1 halyard.  The diagonal creases are there for the usual reasons so no worries there.  I made the top full, thus the bagginess there. 

    The last two days I've been tweaking the lazyjacks, attached all the batten parallels, and started now working on the YHP and LHP.  One issue I've been battling is getting the sail forward.  I have the yard on a bridal that I've adjusted such that the yard will hang at approximately the designed 45 deg angle.  Maybe because of my very long drift (masts are extra tall) the sail sets further aft than I would like.  Sorry that the following pictures are not rotated properly.



    So tonights assignment is to dig into PJR and look at the YHP there.  And possibly switch to a center support for the yard rather than the bridal.  

    I have some added feedback based on my limited experience that I will summarize in a later post.   

    Erik

  • 22 Dec 2017 17:40
    Reply # 5646309 on 5644384
    Annie Hill wrote:Erik - I'm not sure I understand what the problem is with having your halliard block at the top of the mast.  Surely it's only like sailing with a permanently reefed sail?


    Reefer it is.  Thanks :)
  • 22 Dec 2017 02:43
    Reply # 5645754 on 5643544
    David Tyler wrote:

    Erik,

    Please could you say what percentage area of cloth you used, over and above the designed area of the sail? That is, designed area + % extra for pockets, tablings etc + 10% wastage = ? This may help others to work out how much cloth to buy.


    David - I did weight, because it was quick and dirty.  But I think everyone's sailcloth needs will differ even if they follow a standardized method such as Arne's because all sails will fit differently into the available cloth.  And then people opt for different seam allowances, pocket designs, tabbing, and boom and yard sleeves, etc, etc...  

     I know the projected area of the sail, which is obviously different from the actual area since this is a cambered sail.   Flat was 37.8 sq. meters.  Actual sail area - shelves and chamber - is approx 43.8 sq meters (if I clicked on all the right surfaces in SketchUp).  So that part was easy.  What I have not quantified is...   

    • seam allowance of 20 mm.   
    • flat batten pockets. For 20 mm diameter battens I allowed 70 mm of a flat backing and 140 mm to cover the batten circumferentially.
    • 200 mm tabbing along the leech.
    • 100 mm wide luff and leech tape (folded in half).
    •  200 mm wide vertical wear patches along the mast for panels 1 and 2.  
    • Double thickness in the yard pocket along the top.  Because I had my design printed on the cloth I was requested to leave a 25 mm margin along the edge
    • And whatever else I am forgetting :)
    A quote by a very valuable contributor to this site...

    "I suppose the general point I'm making is this: make no assumptions, make no guesses. Draw out all the components of the sail you're going to need, and lay them out onto a drawing of the cloth, and add everything up.
  • 21 Dec 2017 19:04
    Reply # 5645344 on 1424184
    Anonymous member (Administrator)

    Erik,

    The photo below (on Ingeborg) shows how I make an anchor-hold for the batten parrels and Hong Kong parrels (if used). That little piece of yellow line with two loops tied on it is held securely in place with a hose-clamp. Some insulating tape is wrapped between the clamp and the batten. I chose this method on Johanna in 2002, to avoid having to drill any holes in the battens. I have stuck to this method on later rigs. An added bonus is that I can easily move the clamp to a better position during initial trial sails, if needed.

    The only drawback is that I cannot pull out the batten without removing the clamp first. If another sail is to be made, I think I will make the fore batten pockets wider to take some padding material between it and the batten. Then there will also be room for inserting or removing a batten with the hose-clamp in place.

    However, on my first boat, Malena, I tried with just wrapping the batten with several rounds of a wide masking tape and used this as a last defence against having the rolling hitches slip. I wonder if this metal-free method actually is the neatest one...

    One more thing:
    I notice that you are quite hung up in getting everything exactly right. Frankly, rigging a JR is very far from rocket science. The tape, ropes and webbing used, don’t have to be exactly of this or that material. You were on board my Frøken Sørensen, and I can imagine you must have raised an (invisible) eyebrow to some of my lashings and loose ends. However, from an operational point of view, FS’s rig was perfectly good. Therefore, don’t be afraid of using what ropes or webbing is available, or bits of second-hand rope.

    Good luck!

    Arne

       


    Last modified: 21 Dec 2017 19:05 | Anonymous member (Administrator)
  • 21 Dec 2017 15:45
    Reply # 5645126 on 5643995
    Leeway came as a staysail schooner with a combination of rope and webbing that lashed the sails to the mast.  Under the right conditions, either could grab the mast and make raising the sail a bear.  When I saw Paul Fay's idea of using tubing around the parrel lines it was a bit of a Eureka moment.  

    I've used the Clamptite tool a fair bit, here are my thoughts.  As you tighten the wire the point loading can get very high.  Depending on the material, the wire can start to cut through whatever you are tightening it on.  So, you have to be a bit careful about tensioning the clamptite and it would be preferable to use a webbing material like Spectra/Dyneema that is really cut resistant.  After cutting off the excess wire you are left with two very sharp ends.  They can be bent under, but sometimes manage to find their way out again.  I would worry about the sharp ends playing havoc as they run against the sail cloth.  Finally, you'll need to be sure to keep the stainless wire insulated from the aluminum batten.  

    The sails look great Erik and I've enjoyed watching your process.

    Darren - thanks for the insights regarding the Clamptite - I am hoping to be able to bury the pokey ends well enough to not have an issue.  I was going to use black pvc pipe tape to insulate the wire from the tube. It's quite thick and sticky. 
  • 21 Dec 2017 15:19
    Reply # 5645111 on 5643616
    Jami Jokinen wrote:

    What and where from are the neat-looking batten caps, please?

    I made them as part of  learning how to use a lathe.  They were cut out of 25mm thick plastic sheet called Starboard - which is UV stable and similar to delrin.  For 50 mm diameter tubes  I drilled a  28 mm center hole with a spade bit, then turned the square pieces round on the lathe.  The shoulder of center hole was radiused using a roundover bit on a router table.  The pin is a 8 mm stainless tube. I plan on using rivets to hold them in the battens.  I had planned on using a router for all of the shaping, but the lathe was a new skill.  Once in production mode it takes about 10 to 15  minutes each, but I made 14 so it still took some time.
  • 20 Dec 2017 20:07
    Reply # 5644384 on 1424184
    Erik - I'm not sure I understand what the problem is with having your halliard block at the top of the mast.  Surely it's only like sailing with a permanently reefed sail?

    Your YHP is adjusted every time the sail is raised or reefed, so keeps the yard topped up.

    I like a mast lift, myself - putting a metre of soft garden hose on it vastly reduces chafe.  It's handy to grab hold of if you're climbing up the mast or via the battens, too.

    Polyester webbing seems best for batten parrels, but the cheap stuff can fall apart in the sun.  If rope is working for you, Phil, stick with it!  I sailed for years and years with rope batten parrels.

  • 20 Dec 2017 16:28
    Reply # 5643995 on 5643030
    Erik and Evi Menzel Ivey wrote:

    • The plan is to use webbing for batten parallels, fixed onto the batten ends caps with a small spectra loop and aft of the mast again with some lashing.  Not sure how I will fasten the parallel to the batten but likely some complicated and ridiculous way using my ClampTite tool since this is what I bought it for.   Fotos to follow.  


    Leeway came as a staysail schooner with a combination of rope and webbing that lashed the sails to the mast.  Under the right conditions, either could grab the mast and make raising the sail a bear.  When I saw Paul Fay's idea of using tubing around the parrel lines it was a bit of a Eureka moment.  

    I've used the Clamptite tool a fair bit, here are my thoughts.  As you tighten the wire the point loading can get very high.  Depending on the material, the wire can start to cut through whatever you are tightening it on.  So, you have to be a bit careful about tensioning the clamptite and it would be preferable to use a webbing material like Spectra/Dyneema that is really cut resistant.  After cutting off the excess wire you are left with two very sharp ends.  They can be bent under, but sometimes manage to find their way out again.  I would worry about the sharp ends playing havoc as they run against the sail cloth.  Finally, you'll need to be sure to keep the stainless wire insulated from the aluminum batten.  

    The sails look great Erik and I've enjoyed watching your process.

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